Senators would grant president power to order military to indefinitely imprison U.S. citizens on American soil without charge or trial
Posted: November 26, 2011 Filed under: EnemyWithin-American Leave a comment »Like a broken clock, the ACLU gets it right once in awhile. Senators Carl Levin (D-MI) and John McCain (R-AZ) are the sponsors of a bill that could detain any one of us without due process. Even the White House has threatened to veto it.
ACLU (H/T Rob E) The Senate is gearing up for a vote on Monday or Tuesday that goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans. The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.
The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.
Senators need to hear from you, on whether you think your front yard is part of a “battlefield” and if any president can send the military anywhere in the world to imprison civilians without charge or trial.
The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. Even Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) raised his concerns about the NDAA detention provisions during last night’s Republican debate. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.
I know it sounds incredible. New powers to use the military worldwide, even within the United States? Hasn’t anyone told the Senate that Osama bin Laden is dead, that the president is pulling all of the combat troops out of Iraq and trying to figure out how to get combat troops out of Afghanistan too? And American citizens and people picked up on American or Canadian or British streets being sent to military prisons indefinitely without even being charged with a crime. Really? Does anyone think this is a good idea? And why now?
The answer on why now is nothing more than election season politics. The White House, the Secretary of Defense, and the Attorney General have all said that the indefinite detention provisions in the National Defense Authorization Act are harmful and counterproductive. The White House has even threatened a veto. But Senate politics has propelled this bad legislation to the Senate floor.
But there is a way to stop this dangerous legislation. Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) is offering the Udall Amendment that will delete the harmful provisions and replace them with a requirement for an orderly Congressional review of detention power. The Udall Amendment will make sure that the bill matches up with American values.
In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.” Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) also declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”
The solution is the Udall Amendment; a way for the Senate to say no to indefinite detention without charge or trial anywhere in the world where any president decides to use the military. Instead of simply going along with a bill that was drafted in secret and is being jammed through the Senate, the Udall Amendment deletes the provisions and sets up an orderly review of detention power. It tries to take the politics out and put American values back in.
In response to proponents of the indefinite detention legislation who contend that the bill “applies to American citizens and designates the world as the battlefield,” and that the “heart of the issue is whether or not the United States is part of the battlefield,” Sen. Udall disagrees, and says that we can win this fight without worldwide war and worldwide indefinite detention.
The senators pushing the indefinite detention proposal have made their goals very clear that they want an okay for a worldwide military battlefield, that even extends to your hometown. That is an extreme position that will forever change our country.
Now is the time to stop this bad idea. Please urge your senators to vote YES on the Udall Amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act.
When did these demented fellows become possessed by Stalin’s spirit? What is next? The nationwide curfew? Martial law? Gulags?
Why on earth do we need a Udall bill when the Levin/McCain secret bill should be completely overturned? Even the White House recognizes how this imposes on our very basic of American freedoms. Veto this insanity NOW! It seems only a step away from the Nazis breaking down our front doors to imprison us for no reason whatsoever.
nitemare gets so you are afraid to go get some sleep. thanks for the heads up.
yes angel yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to say this sounds like the USA is readying itself for something bad down the road….use your imagination here people…why the need for this? think about it?
Well we know that zerobama thinks the Tea Partiers, conservatives, returning GI’s and blogs like this one are potential terrorists/cells now congress is going to vote on giving him the power to do something about it domestically?
I can see the new Mt. Rushmore now. Stalin, Hitler, Mao & zerobama
LOOK OUT FOR MARTIAL LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what better way to eliminate anyone who dares to criticze a poltiican. Lock them up for life. This is exactly why we have the second amendment.
Gauging by what I’m reading here, It is a toss-up as to who would have been the worst president,,, McCain or Obama??? I am, frankly, astounded that a Viet Nam vet, who was a supposed prisoner of war, would craft something like this~! THIS is more of a Dhimmi DemocRAT idea, than an American Values Republican idea,,, but the ideals of the Political parties – BOTH OF THEM~! – have so long gone down the tubes as to be invisible in the distance~!
Treason,,, Sedition,,, Desertion of the Constitutional Foundation of America,,, Flat, Pure and Simple~!
Putting aside the obvious fact that most of the Senate, House, and our so-called “government” is a bunch of traitors, anyone who votes to do this is committing treason, and not merely justifying, but begging for a bullet to be put in their treasonous head.
… We REALLY just don’t have government any more. We don’t. What we have is the anarchy that results from government abdicating its responsibility.
In theory (and, in America, according to explicit law(s)), “government” is supposed to:
(A) defend the Constitution;
(B) uphold the law (basically defend/follow the Constitution);
(C) serve the public; and
(D) do so with the consent of the governed, from which it draws its legitimate power/authority.
… It is plain fact that NONE OF THESE apply to what is incorrectly regarded as (being) “the American ‘government’”.
The American “government” ISN’T (government); it just isn’t; it doesn’t “govern”; it doesn’t defend the Constitution; it doesn’t uphold/follow the law; it doesn’t serve the public; and it does not have the consent of the governed.
In any rational objective debate between an individual or group that maintains we have government (that our so-called “government” actually qualifies AS [being] government) vs. an individual or group arguing the opposite, the individual/group advocating that we do have government (that “government” applies to our so-called “government”) would LOSE.
Yet more treason from the traitors. People need to wake up and see them for what they are.
The good news is we outnumber them, and greatly, and can win -but only if we are united with clarity, facts, and purpose.
The bad news is that we’ve been successfully divided -and therefore at least tentatively conquered.
It’s absolutely essential that we embrace logic, truth, and morality -and do so consistently, not selectively. And it’s essential we focus on the important underlying issues -and NOT (continue to) be distracted by irrelevancies.
Here’s your “conservative” representative, Marxist-brain-washed Arizonans!
I can’t stand the sight of Senator McAmnesty. And I knew the moment he got the Republican nomination to run for president of the Politburo he had agreed to be the straw man in a mock election to install the yellow-skinned, purple-lipped Muslim imposter.
Amazing how much damage he’s still trying to do, and capable of it as long as he has a vote on the senate floor.
I’d love to here an Ann Barnhardt rant on this.
This is enough to even GAG a BUZZARD! Start “IMPEACHMENT” or “RECALL”, on those who fostered this bill. They aren’t fit to serve in a Democratic nation!
SEAMYSTIC
this is an abomination. these jerks have gone too far.
lamebrains
It would be nice to see a link to this bill! I have looked at what I can of this bill and can not find this. Not that it isn’t there. I just can’t find it at this time. So do we all believe what ever is put into print with out proof?
Jacob, I’m sure one of my readers will find it if it’s available to the public.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c1129eCYzR:e462417:
Sec 1031 and Sec 1032
To be able to read for yourself.
Jacob, that was quick, thanks.
Keep preaching, keep teaching, keep pushing … I believe it will payoff next Nov! (if not sooner!)
Why talk about an amendment? We don’t need such a bill in any form. There are so many things these senators could spend their time and energy on — stopping crime and impeaching corrupt Islamic judges in our courts to name just two. Is all they can do only to think up ways to encroach on Americans’ rights, safety, happiness and well-being? John McCain??? Good. grief, he ran for president — and he, even he, thought up a bill to harm and threaten the American people??? And in secrecy, behind closed doors? A pox on all the senators, all the incumbants must go — go to prison, but they would be incarcerated for a reason and legally for their crimes, not like the unsuspecting victims of this despicable bill.
Sarastro, it sickens me to have to say I agree with Obama on this one, but I do. Maybe there’s something we aren’t seeing about this story? Why would he veto it when it would give him so much control over us? Another campaign lie?
This seems like a law contradictory to the US constitution. A law for a dictatorship and not for a democracy. With such a law anyone can be put in detention for any act what so ever and by means of any damn lie what so ever, and the law may be abused by any evil person with power and authority. It’s similar to the law in France 1794 that made it possible for the members of the Welfare Ccommitee accusing, sentencing and executing anybody by means of anything, lie or truth. That increased the number of executions to an extremely high level until robespierre got stopped.
CRV, I think this story is worth sharing with your email list.
Stop that ‘law’ immediately!
No suprize to me.it has been going around for yrs mccain was a collaborater during his yrs as a p.o.w.there has been a law on the books since 78 that says the govt can take our kids for any reason.
I think the approach McCain and others are taking is to try to set aside key principles of American jurisprudence that terrorist scum have been hiding behind and using against us.
The problem is that you’d have to take these rights away from everyone. So the Muslims have us over a barrel. They see the openness and liberality of Western democracies as a weakness to exploit.
The thing that makes me so mad is that they’re using laws that they would replace in order to destroy the culture that produced them. It’s like voting for a piece of legislation that aims to eradicate voting.The cavemen want the ACLU to help them destroy democracy and freedom of speech, etc.
I understand McCain’s dilemma, but you can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. That’s what the terrorists want. And that’s what the Marxists want. They want us to trade freedom for security and thus pull the cage closed on ourselves.
But trading freedom for security is like trading your head for a helmet.
I am in shock that a guy like John McCain would go for this. It seems that any attack on the constitution from any angle is the objective. Hey, I’m ALL for national security, BUT, this strikes at the very heart of the constitution and who we are as a people. If the Military needs to hold someone as a domestic combatant, isn’t Law Enforcement sufficient? If not, why not?! As this IS so fundamental unconstitutional, I am really surprised the MSM hasn’t picked this up…
BNI, Obama would veto it NOT to help Americans maintain their freedom, but to run cover for the Muslims who are trying to game the system and find civil liberties quite useful in their bid to overthrow the same.
I think McCain is trying to do the wrong thing (terribly wrong) for the right reasons, while Obama is trying to do the right thing for the wrong reasons.
If Obama could, he would benefit Islam without helping America, but the two are co-mingled in this issue. So he merely benefits Americans incidentally (with regret) when he helps the Muslims.
As opposed to creating a law, that violates all citizens rights in a society, I suggest that in this period of Islamic infiltration, a National Death Penalty Law be created, with an injection of Pig’s Blood prior to Execution.
By their standards, they would not attain their reward of a Bordelo in the sky and perpetual Orgasm.
Is John McCain presently functional, or has his brain cells dried up? SAD, SAD, SAD!
SEAMYSTIC
Wow, this one is so messed up that I need to read through not only this piece of legislation, but several others that it interacts with and alters… Looks like a long night ahead.
I could very readily wish “Senator” McCain to be impeached, arrested, tried, convicted as a TRAITOR – and the same with whomever he was working with upon this monstrous bill!!
At the very least, the Republicans should EXPEL HIM from their party!!!! [And the same with any other such "moderates" like Romney, Huckabee et al.]
I can’t wrap my head over this piece of suicidal bullshit. It looks like these two trolls got paid to discredit Republicans with this draconian, totalitarian piece of garbage. This is mutli-step political game and we will see it unraveling. Obama will emerge as a freedom fighter and the guarantor of constitution, vetoing this outrageous attempt to trample American people rights.
This law, if passed without the Udall amendment, would put the US on the same crappy draconian low life level and position as syria or any other hell hole that is run by savages without due humanitarian process, that is the ‘hall mark’ of what it means to be American and proud.
CAT, this should be headline news everywhere yet I haven’t heard a word about it.
Surely the nasty rumors of FEMA /concentration camps in disguise, are only mass paranoia Obama’s support of Occupiers.surely has no ulterior motive behind it,perhaps justify ” Martial Law? Just remember… when you are on the wrong side of the “Animal Farm” fence….All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others”
Macy, got anything more recent?
Along with Soros, Obama, NWO, Illumaniti, etc. we watch the plan unfolding.We must keep each other informed with every bit of information we are able to obtain. Pass it along. Knowledge of surrounding events is most important. Thank God for this super highway. Can you imagine years ago how many days it took to receive info such as we do today. I know Obama is doing his best to shut this information highway down. I am a American that loves my country, I detest what has befallen us through this administration.
Remember folks,
One of our muslim-in-chiefs first job creations was to have a volunteer for be formed in the number of 250,000 that would be armed as well as or better than our armed forces to fight crime! Now does “ANYONE” ( pardon the Caps) , need wonder why the obama gov’t take away our guns? If anyone who reads any of these sites, BNI, dancing elephants, etc. had at least join the NRA whether you like it or not! And be sure you support your congressmen who do!
What if the president is an Islam symphatizer, and out of his evil convictions he wants to jail those who exposes the evil of quran?
What is the necessity of having this…Sounds like martial law to me.
Is there imminent danger from freedom fighters against islam?
If this is undeniably true, I can forsee a time when all Americans must regard the people that we now regale as heroes, our armed forces, as enemies of the people they are supposed to serve.
If, in fact, they can be ordered to search and detain any citizen, we will have to mount a force that also has unlimited power to stop them.
The Germans,under Hitler, missed the chance to stop the brown shirts for two reasons.
First, they were already disarmed “for their own saftey”.
Second, any armed response to the brown shirts tyrannical mandates might hurt little Willy, who was your sisters neighbors child.
Now, let’s all get together and chant in unison; “This is America ! It will never happen here !”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17-6tzKnrWk&feature=related
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/11/another-change-to-section-1031-of-the-sasc-ndaa-bill/
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm#1
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/con_camps_fema.htm
No Fear of tyranny? So then what possible motive is there for passing this NDAA Bill? I seem to remember US veterans being governments terror suspect list.
While other portions of this legislation come into play, section 1031 is of most concern and lies at the core of the matter.
Section 1031 of the Bill extends the Congressional Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) passed after the September 11th attacks to encompass any individual who has “substantially supported” Al Qaeda, the Taliban, or “associated forces”.
While this does extend the operational theatre for US forces to anywhere in the world, including within the US borders, and does allow for the arrest and detention of US citizens along with citizens of any other nationality, the language is specific in referring to those involved in particular terrorist activities, with a particular group of terrorist organizations.
From the liberal side, this is troubling because it is specifically targeted at those assisting the muslim terrorists with whom the liberals are collaborating for the destruction of the country.
From the conservative side, this is troubling because without the need for a trial, anyone who is charged can be so detained indefinately without any proof having to be brought for the charges. There is also the high probability that these powers could be expanded for use against other groups and organizations that are not contained within the legislation.
If the government could be trusted to not abuse this legislation, this legislation would not be a problem from the conservative side. Since there is not a single area of government power that has not and is not being abused, it is sheer fantasy to believe that this authority would be any different.
It is of note that ALL of the articles and attacks against this legislation neglect to mention the specific nature of the circumstances under which people could be so detained.
This legislation is targeted at being able to arrest and detain people such as the members of CAIR, or President Obama for their open, active and financial support of Islamic terrorists acting against this nation, along with other individuals and groups who are actively and knowingly supporting Islamic terrorism; hence the promised presidential veto.
I would be in favor of this legislation were there some checks and balances in place along the lines of probable cause as used to be the case with search and seizure. The Udall amendment does not include such safeguards, but rather removes the usefulness of the legislation in its entirety.
Short version: Nice try with appropriate goal, epic failure because of vague terminology and total lack of oversight or accountability.
Rabbi, I agree that there may be some good points to it, but seeding that kind of power to the president isn’t worth it. After all, the Obama Regime considers returning vets, right wingers, and bloggers like me to be terrorists. Besides, I don’t look good in orange.
Wow. A military state. Whatta surprise.
We are becoming a police state. This is outrageous. This is the mindset that often develops after years of being at war. I hope and pray a new administration is able to stop this.
In my estimation, Ron Paul is the person most likely to restore sanity. He is in strong opposition to this provision.
BNI, that was my point as well. They need to be able to remove the (real) terrorist’s support network, and this is an attempt to allow them to do just that, but this is NOT the way to go about it. We already have plenty of laws in place that do the job effectively (should it ever so be that they happen to be enforced).
The vague nature of the language allows for abuse. The lack of oversight allows for abuse. The lack of standards by which to establish who falls under this legislation allows for abuse.
Our government is wholely dedicated to abusing the law to perpetuate itself, hence this is a VERY BAD IDEA.
I don’t look good in orange either, and I severely doubt if this law would ever be used to remove anyone from the streets who needed removing; current law, if followed, is sufficient for that.
The power to order such a detention should NOT be vested in a single man such as the President, especially not a confirmed and dedicated traitor such as our current President. The vesting of such power in an accountable body is one of the safeguards this does not have, and which it would need to have in order to garner my support.
If they want to do something effective, they should push for the enforcement of current law without regard as to who is going to suffer under the penalty of that law. The financing of recognized terrorist organizations is already against the law, EVERYONE; citizen, Senator, “advocacy group”, or President who has promoted the sending of a single dollar to any known and recognized terrorist organization should be penalized accordingly.
Nice summary, Rabbi. As I said, Obama (the Left) rightly opposes it for the wrong reasons and the Right wrongly desires it for the right reasons.
But there is already a prolonged detention available. It’s called incarceration – after due process, including the right to a speedy trial and all the rest.
I share your concern that the typical Marxist tactic will be used: First, establish the oppressive “legal” precedent, after popularizing it by wielding it against an unpopular segment of the population. Then remove the narrow scope of the otherwise generally oppressive power or rule and extend to any other group. If this second approach were tried first by those who desire such powers, no one would allow it, but the bait to get enough people to step into the trap and allow such a thing is to point it away from them toward a perceived enemy.
This is why we must stand on principle and fairness. We do not need to resort to tyranny to eradicate tyranny (an impossibility anyway). That is not the kind of society we are trying to defend and it’s not worth defending.
Some people in this country would allow a perceived “friendly” tyrant to come to power and they are not our friends. That’s the mindset which brought Hitler to power.
As for terrorist, I say we should throw the book at them – the book! Let’s not write any new ones that violate our sacred principles.
Jacob: the link you have given us opens the page, but it says that the information has been removed!
Sorry…That’s NOT what the bill says.
Under Section 1032
(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
Full text here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c112sZT5CA:e462417:
In the future, I suggest we READ before we SPEAK. I knew something was amiss when I saw how the ACLU had their panties in a wad. should be something to remember in the future, I think.
If there’s more to this than what is actually written in the bill, please enlighten me.
Thanks PN, the bill link that was posted yesterday did not work.
Levin I could picture pulling some s*** like this…..McCain, well, s*** like this that aids and abets the ENEMY explains why he lost the Presidential election in 2008 to a piece of s*** whom he refused to say anything bad about because he didn’t want to “run a negative campaign” and his opponent was really “a fine man” with whom he just had some differences of opinion!!…..AND hell yeah, the ACLU did get this one right for a change!! AND, you can be on the lookout for more of this kind of s*** coming as the onslaught from libs, asslifters and various sorts of Anti-Semitic, Anti-Christian and Anti-American a**wipes continues!!
McCain is no longer in my good graces. THis country was founded on our constitunial right to due process. To take that right away from american citizens is against everything this country stands for.
Are You Scheduled For Government Interrogation or Detainment Should Senators’ Carl Levin (D-MI) and John McCain (R-AZ) S. 1867 Is Passed?
Senators Carl Levin (D-MI) and John McCain (R-AZ) recently sponsored S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act that could detain any U.S. Citizens without due process. How might Americans respond should U.S. Government use S. 1867 to take away their family members, loved ones and friends on mere suspicion? McCain’s prior bill S.3081 had the potential of spawning domestic terrorism in the United States.
McCain’s recently introduced S. 1867 is his second shot at getting this fascist legislation passed: On March 4, 2010, Sen. John McCain introduced S. 3081 a similar bill, “The Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010.” Under McCain’s S.3081 an “individual” would need only be “suspected” by Government of “suspicious activity” of “supporting hostilities” to be dragged off and held indefinitely in Military Custody. U.S. Government would have acquired the power to interrogate and detain any individual without probable cause. U.S. Government would only need allege—an individual kept in detention was an “Unprivileged Enemy Belligerent” (suspected of): having purposefully and materially supported or engaged in hostilities in America; against the United States or its coalition partners. How could anyone prove to Government, they did not purposely do something? U.S. Government could have detained any person or group that spoke out or demonstrated disapproval against any agency of U.S. Government.
When you read McCain’s bill, it appeared “suspicion” was not even necessary for government to detain or interrogate a U.S. Citizen in America. The Bill’s Definition for Unprivileged Enemy Belligerent: (Anyone Subject to a Military Commission.)
Similar to fascist laws in other countries, McCain’s S.3081 if passed, would have frightened Americans from speaking out. S.3081 was so broadly written it appeared any “individual” who dared write on the Internet or verbally express an opinion against U.S. Government or its Coalition Partners could be detained on the basis he or she was an “unprivileged enemy belligerent supporting hostilities.”
See McCain’s Prior Senate bill S.3081 at the web address below: compare McCain’s prior bill to his new bill: S. 1867.
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/ARM10090.pdf [2]
FYI: below is enclosed a copy of Hitler’s Fascist “Discriminatory Decrees signed February 28, 1933.” Although the Nazi Decrees are worded differently, McCain’s S.3081 had the potential of bringing America to the same place, trashing Americans’ free speech and personal liberty. Note how the Nazi Laws similar to McCain’s S.3081, in Nazi Section (1) and (4) had the power to suspend Germans’ personal liberties and shutdown Free Speech to intimidate German Citizens speaking out against the Nazi Government:
See news story: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=121884 [3]
This must be defeated. If people are caught trying to destroy the USA, treat them as traitors with a speedy trial and quick execution.
Are they serious?????? Has Sen. McCain forgotten what it’s like to be imprisoned unjustly? Americans CANNOT and MUST NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.
Rosemary, there are 2 links in the comments above to the actual bill. The first link doesn’t work, the second one does. It might not be quite as bad as we think, but I still don’t like it.
Obama knows Martial Law will be the only way he can control America prior to November elections.
If he imposes Martial Law there will be no elections.
Go ahead and laugh at Ron Paul and marginalize what he says. But he warned us of this. Just like he has warned us about a lot but when he says it people just laugh. Well better stop laughing and start listening to what this guy is trying to tell us. He warned us for the past 20+ years about the FED now lashing out at the FED is fashionable. He also told us to stop watching IRAN and start watching Pakistan and Russia. Again he was right and again he was laughed at. He warned us about the economy and again we laughed. He warned us about the housing bubble and again we laughed. He warned us when Obama ordered Alawaki shot and killed. If they can kill Alawaki (a US born citizen never accused of a single crime) he can turn the guns on us too. It has been done in many, many other countries. Do you really think Obama would not turn the military on us?? Well continue to laugh at Ron Paul and you might just wake up to a gun staring you in the face never to be heard of again. Time to put a person in the White House that is a statesman and not a politician. And there is only 1 left. If we let him go this time there WILL NOT BE ANOTHER chance. Then look at who will be laughing. It surely won’t be us.